Sleeve construction

[lastbloom]

I'm trying to figure out what is going on in these two sleeves. I want to try them out on a new gown I'm making but can't quite decide how to copy them. Any insight?

From a David portrait:
www.flickr.com/photos/motfemme/5647736553/

From a Gerard portrait:
threadforthought.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/detail-of-Madame-Charles-Maurice-de-Talleyrand-Perigord-by-Francois-Gerard-c1808.jpg

They both *look* fairly simple, but I don't have any real drafting experience. I'm using a very fine/sheer, embroidered white silk for the gown.

[dawnluckham]

My guess:

Gerard portrait is two layers – top sleeve and under sleeve. Under sleeve – basic slightly puffed sleeve. Top sleeve is a bell sleeve gathered to a tulip shape with a few stitches.

David portrait: Bell sleeve, gathered with stitches into a tulip shape. The little ball is just what happens when you pull up the stitches.

[lastbloom]

Hi Dawn,

Thanks for the super fast response! I had to look up what a bell sleeve looked like flat, but I think I get the idea. Are the gathers made in a circle on the tasseled sleeve, in order to give it that puff?

[lastbloom]

Another question...the young lady with the sleeve tassels does not appear to be wearing a shift (you can see *everything* under the bodice of the gown, including the low neckline on her petticoat, which also appears to be supporting her bosom). There's nothing under the sheer sleeve in the painting -- would the sleeve look peculiar with a visible shift sleeve under it?