savivi
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Post by savivi on Mar 14, 2008 9:48:10 GMT -5
Okay, so I've been reading about being presented at court, and how the lady had to wear a three yard long train (oh goodness, bare shoulders and back... and feathers! I feel the urge to draw coming on). And there is a major conflict for my logical mind that doesn't seem to have much sense.
It's easy enough to walk up to the queen.... but how did they back away from her without stepping on her gown?
HOW?! With a three yard long train! Wouldn't she trip? Or were they allowed to make a side step and let it drag next to her? Or did somebody pick it up for her? Or could she elegantly pick up the train and carry it on her arm?
Nobody talks about this part!
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maudelynn
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Post by maudelynn on Mar 14, 2008 13:32:47 GMT -5
I do believe the ladies gaurdian, or escort, would help her with her train as she backed away. What I always thought difficult would be to keep the huge feathers straight on my head
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Post by Goblin, esq. on Mar 14, 2008 17:00:32 GMT -5
Remember that Queen Charlotte was a stickler for protocol, and conservative enough to insist that all women at court wore hoops. So they did - with their empire-waisted gowns. The result was a bit... odd looking. There are some pictures at: hal.ucr.edu/~cathy/dress/court2.html(More on topic, I have something about trains and presentations in court that I can look up once I get home.)
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savivi
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Post by savivi on Mar 14, 2008 17:34:03 GMT -5
Haha, yes the feathers would be a burden. And it DOES make sense that she would have help, but I've read mention of it, so that's why I was a bit confused.
And Goblin -- thank you very much! I have seen those pictures, and I always thought they were marvelous -- like something out of an alternate universe... which in a way, they were.
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Post by Goblin, esq. on Mar 15, 2008 16:38:19 GMT -5
Unfortunately my book (which is on Swedish court dress) doesn't mention what one does with one's train after a presentation. During the Regency era, the ladies would stand in a half-circle, in order of rank, each debutante on the right of the lady who was to present her. Trains were spread out. The queen and entourage entered, bowed to the ladies, who all curtsey deeply, then the queen went down the line as each young lady was introduced by the chief-lady-in-wating.
Many years later this changed to the ladies being presented entering individually. Each lady would arrange the train of the preceeding lady, just before she entered the room. Unfortunately the book skips right from the curtsey to the queen to the tea and cakes that were served later....
There are a number of photographs from the 20th century of court ladies with their trains draped over the left arm. including in the afore-mentioned tea-and-cake line.
To keep this about the Regency era, there are photographs in this book of two magnificent trains that originally belonged to the Empress Josephine, and were part of the dowry of her grand-daughter, who became queen of Sweden. At least one train was still being used in the 20th century.
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savivi
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Post by savivi on Mar 17, 2008 10:45:12 GMT -5
That's awesome! Thank you so much!
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Post by Goblin, esq. on Mar 17, 2008 19:17:57 GMT -5
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savivi
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Post by savivi on Mar 18, 2008 8:52:30 GMT -5
I know for sure that holding the train on the left arm was part of the process... but I believe before she entered the room.
The last one's feathers are outrageous!
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Post by cosmoblue on Mar 18, 2008 15:04:39 GMT -5
I found this: he presentations took place at St. James's Palace at events called Drawing Rooms, where the monarch and/or his Queen received those attending Court. Presentation Drawing Rooms were held two or three times a week during the Season. Based on letters and diaries of the time, it was so stressful an experience that it was regarded more as a duty than a pleasure. The young woman to be presented stood sometimes for hours (one never sat in the presence of the Queen) waiting for her name to be announced by the Lord Chamberlain. She then walked to where the Queen sat and made a deep curtsy — which had been practiced and practiced while wearing the hooped skirt. A few pleasantries were exchanged, the young woman answering any question the Queen put to her, but no more. When the Queen indicated she was dismissed, the young woman made one more deep curtsey, and then had to walk backwards out of the royal presence (one never turned one's back on the Queen) all the while dealing with the obstacle of her train so as not to trip over it. Stressful indeed! at: www.candicehern.com/collections/06/court_dresses.htm
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savivi
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Post by savivi on Mar 24, 2008 9:27:51 GMT -5
Thanks! I've decided you have to make a small side step so your train follows you on the side.... or you shuffle back elegantly (is that possible??) so your train bunches up at your feet and moves with you.
Some of the the court dresses I've seen have odd little trains, that look more like tails to me.
Then again, it doesn't much matter anymore, does it? Georgette Heyer glosses over that part as well -- I guess it's a mystery!
Edit: And I found a reference to court presentations in Queen Victoria's reign. They did pick up their train and drape it over their arm before backing away.... I'm sure that would have to be the case in the Regency period, or at least a great possibility.
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Miss Clockwood
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Post by Miss Clockwood on Jun 30, 2010 13:20:19 GMT -5
I just read an article that talks about being presented at court, which can be found here: www.likesbooks.com/court.html. Here is a quote from it: "The young woman walked forward, curtsyed to the monarch, then curtsyed again to any other royalties present, stepped back, the gentlemen in waiting threw her train over her arm and she backed out. That short ceremony made her a full fledged member of Society with all the privileges attending. " Hope that helps!
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Post by mrsmusgrave on Sept 10, 2010 21:33:42 GMT -5
Fanny Burrney, in her Diary of her years at court says that the ladies kicked the train out of the way as they backed away. The man with the stick who helped straighten the trains before they walked toward the Queen, didn't pick it up until they were out of the room afterward.. Peers' daughters were usually presented when they came out and then again after they married. Whether they were presented before marriage or not, they had to be presented again, after they married if the husband ever went to court. The Queen would kiss the forehead of the peers' wives and daughters. Others kissed the Queen's hands.
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