Uniform Uniforms

[Mme de Beaufort]

When you are making your uniforms, do you all have a central source of fabric so you can keep your tones and colours consistent? How about braiding, gold trim; etc, is there a special location you all get those accessories from, or are the uniforms made fairly independently of one another?

[The Major]

Officers or enlisted? The reason I ask is that it can be a differing answer.

[Mme de Beaufort]

themajor said:

Officers or enlisted? The reason I ask is that it can be a differing answer.

In that case, both.

[Goblin, esq.]

I shall have to let the Major respond to this inquiry, as the uniforms I have made have not been part of a unit, and I was not able to afford the proper materials.

That said, in the Navy, which is my particular area of interest, an officer's uniforms (there were none for sailors) were made by his tailor, and while the details as to lace and color were fixed by regulation, the cut of the uniform was not, so that two officers could have very different looking coats, depending on their preferences and that of their tailors.

[Mme de Beaufort]

That's very interesting re: navy tailor-made uniforms.

[Mme de Beaufort]

I've been thinking about outfitting my man in military attire; but it wasn't common for military men to wear their uniforms to balls and parties... so I'm on the fence about it still. Some uniforms are so stunning... I'm not even sure what uniform I should make him; English, French or American; what branch... Army, navy.... whatnot.

Too confusing. I should just stick to a non-military gentleman's attire.

[The Major]

admin said:

themajor said:

Officers or enlisted? The reason I ask is that it can be a differing answer.

In that case, both.

Somehow I knew you were going to say that. Well, here it goes, I'll try to use some brevity. The short answer is yes, but with a little no as well, there is a fairly consistent source for the cloth (cloth in this time period meant wool to the U.S. Army).

The reason for the difference is that while the enlisted soldiers were issued their uniforms from the Army, officers had to procure their own. We'll start with the enlisted. First, we know from research that the Army contracted out all the enlisted uniforms to a number of different contractors. Not all of them got the materials from the same source. So there were some variations in the cloth amongst contractors. Also, the uniforms were mass produced. They were cut out in assembly line fashion. E.g. one person would be cutting out nothing but outside arm panels while another might be cutting out only collar outside pieces. This is significant because the technology of the period was not what it is today. Even today there are variances from dye lot to dye lot. The variances were worse in the early 19th century. So from the bolt the arms were cut, to the bolt for the front panels, the back panels, the collar, etc, there were also differences. By the time an enlisted man's coat was assembled, the cloth panels may have each come from several different dye lots giving varying tones on each coat. And that's just from one contractor!

For my regiment, and the time span we portray, there are 3 different uniforms that are two different colors and materials - the 1810-1813 winter uniform (wool), 1814-1821 winter uniform (wool), and the 1808-1821 summer uniform. The summer uniform is made of linen, either flax or hemp, is light weight which is nice in the summer,and mostly resembles a woodsman's hunting frock. We do not have a consistent source of pre-dyed linen to make the summer frocks, so we usually have to dye or buy a bunch when someone comes across. This isn't easy to come up with the funds when you know you may have to sit on the fabric for a couple years before you get your money back out of it. We do have a fairly consistant source for the winter uniforms (also the dress uniform). Woolrich Woolen Mills carries one color and Pendleton Wool carries the other. Depending on the year of uniform the trim is either yellow tape and/or black soutache cording and there are good sources for these as well. The enlisted uniform is by far the easiest to get the materials for. So for the enlisted, we are probably fine for the make of the cloth but too consistant with tone.

For the officers uniforms it's a bit different. Because officers had to buy their own, they would have them custom tailored from either a recommended or their own tailor. There wasn't the variance in tones and such as the enlisted. Another big difference is that the Army purchased "economical" cloth for the enlisted while the officers had their clothing made of much finer cloth. The regulations specified the color and length of tails (this was based on rank, higher rank=longer tails) and type of trim, but not the cut or actual materials of cloth and trim. So there were variances among the officers' uniforms. Officers were also given some latitude in this area as long as their uniform was within the spirit of the regulations.

Today, a lot of it has to do with how authentic one wants to be. I tend to go to the extreme. The cloth (wool) for my uniform came from England. It is made in the same mill that has been making these wools for several centuries. The gold cording for my cap was made on the exact same machinary it was made on for the past 300 years. Yes, it's still in operation but I had to wait 2-1/2 years for it because they had to retool to make the exact cording I needed. And now that I've been promoted to Major, I don't even wear the cord anymore For my epaulettes, they are an exact copy of an original pair and are made with real gold fabric on the boards, real gold bullions, etc. The gold lace or trim is the same way. How authentic does one want to be. You can get gold looking mylar lace for far less money and can find it at quite a few fabric stores or online quite readily. Or you do want the real stuff? Either way, there isn't much consistancy beyond size, width and such.

So, there really was variances in tones of the cloth. The reason for it just depends on whether you refer to enlisted or officer. I hope this answers your question, and I hope I wasn't too verbose.

[The Major]

chrisber said:

I shall have to let the Major respond to this inquiry, as the uniforms I have made have not been part of a unit, and I was not able to afford the proper materials.

That said, in the Navy, which is my particular area of interest, an officer's uniforms (there were none for sailors) were made by his tailor, and while the details as to lace and color were fixed by regulation, the cut of the uniform was not, so that two officers could have very different looking coats, depending on their preferences and that of their tailors.

In the U.S. Navy, some Captains would supply matching clothing for their crew. Not all but some. While this would give them a 'uniform' appearance, they wouldn't match the sailors on the ship next to them.

[Goblin, esq.]

themajor said:

In the U.S. Navy, some Captains would supply matching clothing for their crew. Not all but some. While this would give them a 'uniform' appearance, they wouldn't match the sailors on the ship next to them.

I don't recall offhand of this being done in the Royal Navy, but some captains would outfit their gig crews in matching uniforms. (A gig in this instance is the small boat a captain is rowed about in, when he has to leave his ship.) In general, sailors would buy many of their garments from the 'slop chest' which was purchased in bulk, to certain specifications, so there was some uniformity in clothing.

[Mme de Beaufort]

Nobody can be too verbose around me. I'm a talker... I'm sure you've noticed. That was an excellent reply.

Pendleton is an Oregon thing. Cosmo and I have the delightful option of going to the Mill End store which is a fabric outlet owned by Pendleton.... Their wool selection is naturally, excellent.

[The Major]

chrisber said:

themajor said:

In the U.S. Navy, some Captains would supply matching clothing for their crew. Not all but some. While this would give them a 'uniform' appearance, they wouldn't match the sailors on the ship next to them.

I don't recall offhand of this being done in the Royal Navy, but some captains would outfit their gig crews in matching uniforms. (A gig in this instance is the small boat a captain is rowed about in, when he has to leave his ship.) In general, sailors would buy many of their garments from the 'slop chest' which was purchased in bulk, to certain specifications, so there was some uniformity in clothing.

AAhh you Navy blokes and your jargon. Maybe that's why I'm an Army kind of guy, in the Navy I could never remember what everything was called

I have the same problem with the Naval officers in my division. They start talking about how to do something and the rest of us poor Army officers have no idea what they're saying

That is interesting about the gig crew and slop chest. There must have been as least some resemblence if not uniformity.

[Goblin, esq.]

admin said:

I've been thinking about outfitting my man in military attire; but it wasn't common for military men to wear their uniforms to balls and parties... so I'm on the fence about it still. Some uniforms are so stunning... I'm not even sure what uniform I should make him; English, French or American; what branch... Army, navy.... whatnot.

I would like to someday make a French naval officer's uniform, as they have glorious embroidery with anchors on the buttonholes and collar. (Fortunately, Uniforms of Trafalgar by Fabb and Cassin-Scott, has a reasonable picture of an official(?) diagram of the embroidery.)

The French army under Napoleon had an almost infinite variety of uniforms, so there are plenty to choose from. The British army had almost infinite variety in regimental details, which are fascinating to research.

[The Major]

chrisber said:

admin said:

I've been thinking about outfitting my man in military attire; but it wasn't common for military men to wear their uniforms to balls and parties... so I'm on the fence about it still. Some uniforms are so stunning... I'm not even sure what uniform I should make him; English, French or American; what branch... Army, navy.... whatnot.

I would like to someday make a French naval officer's uniform, as they have glorious embroidery with anchors on the buttonholes and collar. (Fortunately, Uniforms of Trafalgar by Fabb and Cassin-Scott, has a reasonable picture of an official(?) diagram of the embroidery.)

The French army under Napoleon had an almost infinite variety of uniforms, so there are plenty to choose from. The British army had almost infinite variety in regimental details, which are fascinating to research.

Oh yes, I agree! I do, I do, I do. The French had such grand uniforms. Perhaps time consuming, difficult and expensive to recreate, but it would be worth it.

I like some of the British uniforms as well. A 95th Rifles officer would be fun, but I would like to make a British Lancer Officer uniform. That would definitely be cool!

I will admit that when the War of 1812 started, the American uniforms became fairly blah.

[Goblin, esq.]

themajor said:

AAhh you Navy blokes and your jargon. Maybe that's why I'm an Army kind of guy, in the Navy I could never remember what everything was called

I have the same problem with the Naval officers in my division. They start talking about how to do something and the rest of us poor Army officers have no idea what they're saying

I must confess that sailing is very jargon heavy. Sailing ships were the biggest, most complex machines in the world at the time, and required a lot of precise words for things that didn't exist anywhere else. :-)

I have often found William Falconer's Dictionary of the Marine, online at southseas.nla.gov.au/refs/falc/ to be very helpful when I'm away from my reference books.

The following picture clearly shows my eyes glazing over, and I'm the one doing the explaining! :-)

[The Major]

Thank you very much for the reference. That should be very helpful for me.

I say, your coat looks very dashing.

I especially like your fob. I have been struggling with finding something decent. Is there someplace that offers them?

[Goblin, esq.]

themajor said:

I especially like your fob. I have been struggling with finding something decent. Is there someplace that offers them?

I have not been able to find anyplace that sells assembled fobs. I made mine myself from a piece of embroidered ribbon and parts found in the local bead shop. It looks passable, but I won't vouch for its authenticity.

[The Major]

Mssr. Goblin,

Should you ever run across a merchant that does make or sell Regency appropriate watch fobs, please let me know. And I will be sure to do the same. Perhaps between the two of us we track someone down that can supply our need.

[Mme de Beaufort]

I heard a rumour that Amazon Dry goods supplied such things, but I have no means to prove it. Im' waiting for my first general catalogue from them, so I will be sure to mention it if I find a fob; I have to make one for my DH at some point too.

[Goblin, esq.]

themajor said:

Mssr. Goblin,

Should you ever run across a merchant that does make or sell Regency appropriate watch fobs, please let me know. And I will be sure to do the same. Perhaps between the two of us we track someone down that can supply our need.

I have run across the metal ends of watch fobs at GGGodwin
(www.gggodwin.com/382.htm) but they would require additional hardware and ribbon.

[The Major]

Thank you so much. I would really appreicate it.