Questions for you about the period clothing market

[Miss Credit]

Ok I believe this is the correct place to ask this question...

Well I have been toying around with the idea of making affordable and accurate period clothing to sell during events and I wanted to get some opinions from the consumer (you guys) first.

I am thinking about starting up with undergarments because right now they are the quickest thing for me to make and there really is nobody out there that makes great period stays for this era. I think after getting a good clientele with my undergarments I would then move onto dresses or maybe childrens clothing offering a range of fashions from pauper to princi. I think later I could even get some of the original patterns printed up to be sold, but thats a whole other story there.

Ok first question what sort of clothing items would you like to see ready to purchase from a sutler?

Do you like the idea of offering premade stays in various sizes to buy as well as offering to custom make stays for an additional fee?

What price range do you deem appropriate for stays both long and short, a chemise, embroidered garters and a chemisette?

[Val]

I always hate to make the undergarments because I just want to get to the "pretty stuff". I would definitely want to buy a bodiced petticoat, a chemise, and a chemisette. The first two I've made, and the chemisette I started making in class and haven't finished, but it's not *that* hard.
So taking into consideration that I *could* and can, make these myself, I would still prefer to buy them. But they would have to be at a price that would make me throw all interest in making them myself out the window.
I don't want to insult anyone's talent and work, so I hope I don't do that with the prices I would be more than willing to pay.
For a bodiced petticoat, I would pay $50 US.
For a chemise, $25 US. For a chemisette, $20-$25 US, depending on the fabric and lace.
And these would be made of a very lightweight cotton, not expensive fabrics.
I've looked at others being sold online, and even tho I dearly want to, I couldn't bring myself to pay the prices they were asking. I would tell myself, don't be silly, you can make it yourself.
Now don't ask me about bonnets. All bets are off. Those are my weak point.

[Mme de Beaufort]

I would probably give someone decent money to sew a stays or the tougher, more involved things. Honestly, like Val, I like the gowns... I'd pay money for decent, accurate undergarment pieces but what I hate making most? Menswear.

[cosmoblue]

Question 1: I would think things like aprons and cloaks and mitts and gloves and other non personalized items. I personally like the knowledge that my actual garments are unique to me. I would possibly pay for a chemise or chemisette or petticoat. I could see people who did not like to sew paying a relatively reasonable price for day dresses. Children's clothes would be great to buy because kids grow so fast it is not always easy to keep up along with making clothes for oneself.

Question 2: I could see buying stays as well if I didn't like making them myself. In fact I was thinking about making Stays for the ORS members before I moved away.

Question 3: I used to make custom garments for people so I have two perspectives on price.

First my consumer brain: I would pay $50-75 for short stays (they just look like there is not that much to them), $125 for long stays (more fabric more boning and plus a busk), $25 for a chemise (they just look simple to make and fabrics don't need to cost that much), $35 for a chemisette (because they are easily substituted with an in expensive fichu), and $15 for a pair of garters (because they are small).

From my seamstress brain I would have a hard time charging less than: $175ish for short stays (they are the foundation for achieving the right shape and involve many layers and have binding), $250ish for long stays (they are the foundation for achieving the right shape and involve many layers and have binding plus more fabric more boning and plus a busk)see period corsets available style: www.periodcorsets.com/865.html?store_products_id=16 , $40 for a chemise (they are not that difficult as long I am using a machine to sew with med quality fabric and not all by hand but they take lie 2 yards and I need to profit above fabric costs for it to be worth my time), $60 min. for a chemisette (because they can take a lot of fabric and hemming), and $25 for a pair of garters (because they are hand worked). That being said when I freelance I make between $25-40 so that is what I know my time is worth. So I usually go with $25 an hour plus materials for my customs I have done in the past.

[Miss Credit]

Thank you all for your input. I am trying to get a general idea first of what everyone is looking for and then this winter I planned on making up some items to work out the bugs in all of my patterns and then talk to Sue Spencer a sutler friend to see what she thinks.

[tess]

I loved Cosmo's two perspectives on the pricing! It is true you have to balance the time/materials with consumers' sense of "value" for the product. I exhibit at art shows and after 9 years still agonize over my prices. I always try to stay within the range of other vendors prices and at the same time not short myself. I find I sometimes have to charge less for one item than it's time value, but can make it up on other items that take much less time but customers feel like is worth "more".

With all that said, I would buy a boned/bodiced petticoat and pay $50-75, a chemisette for $25ish, an extra chemise for $25ish and long stays for $125-175. I've made boned short stays now, so I wouldn't buy those, as I was surprised at how "easy" they were after my HUGE dread of making them. If I'd never made them I would have loved to buy them for $50-$75.

The thing I finished this week that totally shocked my (in terms of time/construction) was the Kannik's Korner round ear cap. One of the vendors at the JA fest sold one for $80ish dollars. At the time I thought you've GOT to be kidding!. Now that I've done all that hand sewing and all those lengths of rolled hems I totally understand the price. Next time I'm making lots of short cuts in the construction instead of following directions!

Good luck!!!

[Val]

Oct 4, 2008 18:30:27 GMT -5 tess said:

the Kannik's Korner round ear cap. Now that I've done all that hand sewing and all those lengths of rolled hems I totally understand the price. Next time I'm making lots of short cuts in the construction instead of following directions!

That's good to know because I have mine cut out of the 1740-1820 Everyday cap ready to handsew it. Thanks!

[dawnluckham]

I’ve been waiting for the opportunity to sit down when I had the time to think about my response here.

Cosmo’s right “on” when she shares the two different perspectives on this. The common consumer hasn’t a CLUE!!! about what goes into the making of a garment. Sewing and pattern making is SKILLED work and if you can do it and they can’t, you deserve to be paid at least minimum wage and probably more for the product you offer.

When calculating what your expenses are as a seamstress you need to consider the time you spend preparing the pattern, cutting out, pressing, sewing, finishing, etc. You also in all reasonability consider the cost of hydro, workspace, and maintenance on your machines.

Add to that the costs of materials, thread, buttons, hooks, pins, etc.

I had been thinking about offering the link to the Period Corsets website but I see Cosmo beat me to it!

You must also consider the QUALITY of the product you offer.
There is a saying that there are three elements you should consider when producing and pricing a product: Quality, Quantity and Price: and you can only reasonably offer your consumer two of these things.

What this means is, you can decide to offer lots of product for a cheap price but you cannot also offer high quality. Or you can offer quality product for a fair price but you cannot have a high volume. Or you can offer quality and quantity but the price will be high.

What I’m driving at is that I have discovered I am a detail-oriented person. I like being able to do meticulous work. I think I offer things at a very fair price, but I’m a slow careful worker, so I cannot offer anything in large quantity nor do I enjoy being in a high pressure time limited position. I’m capable of producing high quality in volume but if I need to be stressed to do it, I will ask a much higher price.

A couple more things you should consider is that if you ask too little for your products, people think that they are “worth nothing”. Your product becomes undervalued in their minds. It becomes like the t-shirt they bought at Wal-Mart.

I, for one, know that I spend a lot of time sourcing and purchasing quality materials and I spend hours and hours producing carefully made garments. I also have an education and knowledge of the item and can offer documentation and information and shared research about how to wear the garment and who would wear the garment. And I have spent time and money in learning to be a skilled seamstress and pattern maker. With all of that in mind, I feel that my garments should cost more and be treated with more respect than that t-shirt from Wal-Mart.

All that to say, you should ask a high enough price so that the item is valued by the consumer.

I need to bring up the example of the chemise.

It takes me 3 meters to make a chemise. I don’t know how you’re doing it with two, Cosmo! Cutting in volume can save yardage, of course! I use good quality fabric and I’ve currently got a supplier where I can purchase light-weight linen for $10/meter. Without adding in anything else (like thread or the fine cotton ribbon for the neckline casing) the cost of materials for a chemise is $30. I make the chemise with French seams and felled seams for the gussets and hand rolled hems and sleeve hems and a hand stitched neckline casing. Including cutting out, we’re talking a minimum of 4 hours work. To hang that garment on the rack with a price tag of $50.00 is insane, however that’s what the average shopper at my sutlery thinks I should do. Hence, I don’t make chemises to hang on the rack. I’d be happy to make them for someone should she be willing to pay me to do it.

I make stays custom. Hanging ready made stays on the rack has been tricky, I’ve found. So often the fit needs to be so precise. The last thing you want is your customer walking around saying that they spent good money on stays from you, but they’re so uncomfortable to wear that they never wear them. With the gusseted styles of stays, the fit is very specific.

I don’t mean to be a ‘wet blanket’. I’d encourage you to go ahead with your plan. I’d also encourage you to make sure you research what you’re offering so you can offer high-level goods. Anything that will raise the level of the ‘look’ that is offered in this particular era is to be celebrated. We’ve got a long way to go before we achieve the levels of authenticity and quality that can be readily found in the American Civil War and Rev. War eras.

[tess]

After reading Dawn's post, I think I've considerably under-priced the value of most items I mentioned.
I know I spent at least $30 on the material for my chemise, so after adding time/labor it would have to go for much more.

Also, it would significantly depend on the market you are catering to. If you are selling to those seriously in-the-know about period correct construction/materials, your prices could and should be much higher for quality workmanship and research. That market would understand the appropriate prices. Where you would have difficulty is marketing those products to a general public who don't know/care about the detail/authenticity.

A standard formula for a starting point in pricing art show products is materials x 3. Of course you would have to adjust for those small items that take forever (like my cap!).

I know until I had made some of these items, I wouldn't have understood the detail that goes into them. I think if you educated your buyers about your product and the attention that went into their production, they would be more appreciative of the value.

While I have items up to $600 in my booth, most of what I sell is in the $25-50 range. I think you have to offer a lot of price points to appeal to different audiences.
Since you may be selling through another retailer, you might be able to just specialize in high quality, custom items and hit that niche market, however.

As you can tell, my ideas on pricing are ALL over the place. Please take them with a grain of salt and don't let anyone's idea of value/price affect you too much. Only you know what goes into making a piece and only you have the right to set the price.

Melissa