Altering patterns

[missmardi]

I have a pattern to make Canadian Fencible coats for my guys. It is similar to this one of the King's 8 that my step son is wearing. (It's a little big on him, but I have the pattern for a smaller one)

My husband would like some civilian clothing as well. I was thinking with some alterations, that I could just use this pattern to make a waistcoat, and coat. My thinking was that the lines of this would work for a waistcoat, if I left off the sleeves. I then thought that I could alter the front and add an appropriate collar (and use smaller seam allowances) to make a coat for him. I then realized that I have never even made any type of suit coat for my husband, so I would not even know where to start to create the collar. Can anyone give me some advice on how to do this? Is it fairly straight forward, or am I being too ambitious?

[The Major]

Miss Mardi,

You are on the right track for the suit coat. You can indeed use the same pattern as the military coat, including the collar. Something a lot of people don't think about is that military uniforms (of nearly all countries in the world that I'm familiar with) were patterned after civilian fashion. Most will see that the uniforms were not designed for function on the combat field as uniforms today are. Patterns are very very close. So if you make a civilian coat from a military pattern, it should be just fine considering many officers had the little civilian clothing they owned made by the same tailors that they had make their uniforms. This is exactly what I intend to do for civilian clothing when I get time.

The collar is fairly straight forward, although it depends on the pattern. If done historically correct it takes a bit of hand sewing that simply is not possible to be done on a machine. Once the collar is constructed, then it can be attached to the body by machine. One important thing that needs to be pointed out here, they often used a stiffener in the collar to make sure it stays up and not droop. I used 2-3 layers of canvas cut identical and sewn on 1/2 inch lines on the length of the collar and build the collar around it. Other people use other methods, this is just what works for me and that I know is one of the original methods used. It probably sounds more complicated than it is.

BTW, nice looking couple.

[missmardi]

I am glad to here that I am not totally out in left field in my thinking . I am curious to know if anyone can give me an idea on the shaping of the collar for the jacket. I am confident in playing with women's patterns, but men's patterns are new to me.

Edited to say: I think he wants a collar that folds down, so that his civilian coat is different.

[Eleanor]

I know this is an old thread, but it is of particular interest to me as I am hoping to modify a civilian tail coat into a naval officer's uniform. I have the Rocking Horse Farm 1795-1820 Tailcoat pattern. I've never made a tail coat before, but I am an experienced seamstress.

Does anyone have any tips or suggestions?

I know Goblin has made both, though I believe he drafted his own patterns. What say you, sir? Are they similar enough to modify one to the other?

[Goblin, esq.]

Apr 7, 2010 11:44:45 GMT -5 Eleanor said:

I know this is an old thread, but it is of particular interest to me as I am hoping to modify a civilian tail coat into a naval officer's uniform. I have the Rocking Horse Farm 1795-1820 Tailcoat pattern. I've never made a tail coat before, but I am an experienced seamstress.

Does anyone have any tips or suggestions?

I know Goblin has made both, though I believe he drafted his own patterns. What say you, sir? Are they similar enough to modify one to the other?

My adapted pattern was based on civilian coats. The written uniform regulations of the day don't describe the cut of the coat in any detail (although there are mentions of sealed patterns available for inspection). Judging from the portraiture of the period, uniform coats existed in a number of different styles.

The main differences between a civilian and a uniform coat are the collar (a stand collar on the uniform, much easier to cut!) the cuffs (a "mariner's cuff" on the dress uniform, round cuffs on the undress) and the facings (lapels) which are also pretty straight forward.

There were two main general styles of coat; the older style where the fronts gradually curve back into the tails, and the newer style (that we think of as typically Regency) where the fronts are cut straight across.

This dress coat is cut in the older style:


(Note that the front is curved. Also, this is a good view of the 1795-1812 lacing.)

This undress coat is cut in the newer style:


(Note how the fronts are cut back, even when the lapels are buttoned back.)

Both these coats were owned by the same gentleman, so he had an older style dress coat and a newer style coat for daily wear. Possibly because the undress coat wears out more often and is replaced with one of the latest style, but I don't know the details.

In portraits, admirals usually wear the older style of coat, but I think this has more to do with the age of the sitter than any official uniform regulations.

Finally, I should point out that all this has focussed on the 1795-1812 regulations (since that's what I based my coat on). In 1812 there was a new set of uniform regulations, restoring white facings, etc. Which period are you planning on following, madam?

(For a good closeup of the cuffs of my coat, go to www.paloaltoonline.com/news/show_story.php?id=4530 and pause the slide show at the fourth slide from the end.)

[Eleanor]

Thank you, sir!

We are looking at 1810 or so to focus on, though right now that is completely arbitrary.

I've been reading "Dressed to Kill" and my husband is devouring "Nelson's Navy." There is a lot of excellent information in both books. "Dressed to Kill" has many extant examples of uniforms. And even though the regulations changed, it seems the older uniform styles continued to be worn. Perhaps because new uniforms were expensive?

At any rate, we are starting with an undress uniform to get a feel for how they are constructed. That, and I have only day dresses. Until I get a ball gown, he will not be dressier than myself. ;-)

With regards,
~Barbara

[Goblin, esq.]

Apr 8, 2010 15:41:19 GMT -5 Eleanor said:

I've been reading "Dressed to Kill" and my husband is devouring "Nelson's Navy." There is a lot of excellent information in both books. "Dressed to Kill" has many extant examples of uniforms.

Brian Lavery's Nelson's Navy is an excellent, excellent resource. I had not heard of Dressed to Kill. I need to read this! I shall have to buy it at once.

I have an ancient (pre decimal currency) National Maritime Museum publication with good pictures of naval uniforms from their collection, and another older work on the history of British naval uniforms, whose title and author escape me right now.

It also occurs to me that this thread is straying off the topic of altering patterns, and should perhaps be moved elsewhere.

Oh moderators?

[Goblin, esq.]

Apr 8, 2010 16:03:45 GMT -5 Goblin, esq. said:

I had not heard of Dressed to Kill. I need to read this! I shall have to buy it at once.

I ordered Dressed to Kill from Amazon.com last night (along with, um, a quantity of other stuff). I can't wait for it to arrive. I'll call it a late birthday present.

[Eleanor]

That's pretty much what I did when I heard about the book. ;-) Enjoy!